1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000
Welcome to the Infinite Votion Podcast.
2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,000
In today's episode, Don and I go deep into people pleasing
3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:14,000
versus authenticity, and how people pleasing really is the opposite of authentic
4
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,000
desire to give. We talk about healing the patterns of people pleasing
5
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,000
and how they bring joy back to giving
6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,000
and how dominance can also be people pleasers.
7
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,000
And you'll want to listen all the way to the end of this episode
8
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,000
when I share an idea that was the most impactful thing
9
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:42,000
for Don in being able to see into her people pleasing patterns
10
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,000
that helped her heal them for herself.
11
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,000
Hope that you enjoy this episode.
12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000
And please leave a review for us on Google, Apple Podcasts
13
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,000
or Spotify if you enjoy our podcast.
14
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:06,000
[Music]
15
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:12,000
So in today's episode, we are going to be talking about people pleasing,
16
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:18,000
specifically as it relates to dominant submissive relationships.
17
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,000
And we're going to take some time to really go into how people pleasing
18
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000
played into your role or in your life really before we were
19
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,000
dominant submissive and some of the ways that it's had to
20
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,000
work its way out of you.
21
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,000
Right before we started, I asked you what do you think is the opposite
22
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,000
of people pleasing? And you said what?
23
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,000
Authentic desire to please.
24
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,000
So, like the key word is authenticity.
25
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,000
And that was the same authenticity.
26
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,000
It was the same word I had in my mind as well when thinking about
27
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,000
what is people pleasing not.
28
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:12,000
And that really gets at an important point to the whole idea
29
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,000
of people pleasing.
30
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:20,000
Before we dive into it, there is some, at some level,
31
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:28,000
the difference between giving and people pleasing is
32
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,000
there's something inauthentic about it, right?
33
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000
There's something not real.
34
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:40,000
So, what is people pleasing to you?
35
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:56,000
For me it meant that I was giving myself to others
36
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:04,000
to either make them happy, to make them feel good,
37
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:12,000
to give them what they wanted from me.
38
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:20,000
And what I didn't realize for a lot of my life was that
39
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:28,000
it was giving to someone else without even considering myself.
40
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:34,000
Considering my own desire in what I was doing,
41
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:40,000
how I was giving of myself, and the fact that I would put
42
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:47,000
someone else's feelings before my own, before anything about myself.
43
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:55,000
And it's an unconscious pattern, an unconscious behavior.
44
00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:05,000
Some people who message us or write to us about submission
45
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,000
will say with a lot of pride that there are people pleasing,
46
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,000
like something that they're proud of.
47
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:19,000
Would you say that it felt like something you were proud of?
48
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:27,000
Once I recognized what people pleasing, the putting others before
49
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,000
myself actually felt like.
50
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:36,000
Once I connected to my own experience of it,
51
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000
it felt gross.
52
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:48,000
It felt like I didn't have any sense of it.
53
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,000
Any self-worth.
54
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:59,000
I cared so much more about someone else than I cared about myself.
55
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,000
But before that, when you were living in that way,
56
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,000
when you were just giving and giving and giving of yourself,
57
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,000
would you say that you felt differently about that giving?
58
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,000
Well, when I was living out this pattern that had been there
59
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:27,000
like my whole life, this goes back to childhood and witnessing
60
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,000
probably how many adults, but especially my mother,
61
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,000
would give of herself.
62
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:42,000
This also involves how my impression of,
63
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:50,000
I'm going to label this as religion, gave the impression,
64
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:58,000
I guess, of self-sacrifice, of hearing some of those words,
65
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:05,000
given to others, you know, all of that language that I was a big part
66
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,000
of my upbringing.
67
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,000
I mean, private school, going to church every Sunday,
68
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,000
going to Sunday school, I absorbed a lot of that.
69
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:23,000
And so, I associated giving of myself to others as good.
70
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:30,000
And what I have now recognized is not all of that giving of myself to others
71
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,000
was actually out of my own desire to give to others.
72
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:44,000
So, many times, it just was following a rule, if you will,
73
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,000
versus following my own desire.
74
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,000
Yeah.
75
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:59,000
And it's that indiscriminate giving without any consideration
76
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,000
of what you need, where it becomes people pleasing.
77
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,000
Right.
78
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000
And giving is a beautiful thing.
79
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,000
Yes.
80
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:15,000
And it can be a very fulfilling, rewarding,
81
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:24,000
like, absolutely positive experience to give of yourself.
82
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,000
Yes.
83
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,000
Absolutely.
84
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000
There's so much there that I could elaborate on.
85
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:40,000
Well, the point that I want to make here is that people pleasing
86
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:46,000
as a pattern that can be broken out of doesn't mean shifting
87
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,000
to not giving of yourself.
88
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,000
Not at all.
89
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:57,000
It means shifting to giving from a place of fullness,
90
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:02,000
rather than giving from a place of obligation.
91
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,000
Right.
92
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:09,000
And so, you know, this journey into submission has been a beautiful
93
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,000
unraveling of the people pleasing for me.
94
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:22,000
It, because I had authentic desire to give of give to you.
95
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,000
Like, you know, some people are familiar with the five
96
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,000
languages, and I took that test, and it was like my number two
97
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,000
love languageless acts of service.
98
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,000
And it's true.
99
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,000
I love, I do love giving to others.
100
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:44,000
Like, I genuinely, without expectation and return.
101
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:53,000
And so, when we started this, added this dynamic to our marriage,
102
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,000
like, that authentic desire to please you was already there.
103
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,000
And so, I got to live in even more of that focus.
104
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:12,000
What started to, what I started to recognize in that process was
105
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,000
when that resentment started to build in me.
106
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,000
And that was eye-opening for me.
107
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:26,000
I was like, why, like, what is going on here that I'm starting to
108
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:35,000
resent a lot of things that felt good to me, felt like,
109
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:41,000
I thought felt good to me in this person that I love and desire
110
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,000
to give my devotion to and give of myself to.
111
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,000
And it was just like this contradiction in my body, and I was like,
112
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,000
whoa, what is going on here?
113
00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:02,000
And that's when I started to realize that in some ways,
114
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:12,000
not all, that I was acting out of the desire to please you without
115
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:18,000
even recognizing that I was crossing over my own need and saying no to
116
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:23,000
myself in certain ways.
117
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,000
And that's a really big differentiation between people
118
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:33,000
pleasing and authentic, like, authentic giving is, are you saying yes to
119
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,000
yourself or are you saying no to yourself?
120
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,000
Exactly. And once I started approaching it in that way,
121
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:49,000
and really just sitting with, am I saying yes to you because I need
122
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000
to make you feel okay?
123
00:10:52,000 --> 00:11:03,000
Or am I afraid to tell you no?
124
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,000
And this, like, also played out in all of the other relationships in my
125
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,000
life. And it gave me, it was like I put on a pair of glasses that I had been
126
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,000
wearing and it was like, whoa, it felt overwhelming.
127
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:27,000
The amount of myself that I gave away, yeah, and it,
128
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,000
overwhelming and sad.
129
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,000
And I, when you realized it, when I realized it, yes.
130
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:45,000
And because of all of the different belief systems that felt like
131
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,000
they were underneath it, and it was like, whoa, who, like, what am I
132
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:58,000
doing to myself? Like, that feeling of living in authentically just like
133
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000
was a gut punch.
134
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:09,000
Another reason that I know you have identified for yourself, and that
135
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:15,000
we've heard from plenty of other people too, that people will go into and
136
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,000
live in this people pleasing pattern is that they're trying to get some kind of a
137
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000
need met by doing so.
138
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,000
What needs would you say you were trying to get met unconsciously?
139
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,000
To feel loved.
140
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:41,000
I was associating with how I gave of myself to get loved in return.
141
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,000
So looking back at that, how were you, what was the pattern you were trying to
142
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:51,000
get to play out? I give of myself and then what were you hoping?
143
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:58,000
You love me more for what I'm doing.
144
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:08,000
And that's where it becomes actually way less about giving in a people
145
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:14,000
pleasing pattern. On its face at the front, it's about what you're giving
146
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:19,000
and what you're doing and like how selfless you can be and how kind you can be.
147
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,000
But underneath it, it's being done to get something.
148
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:31,000
Right. And also validating my own self-worth because I definitely grew up with
149
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:39,000
an environment that perpetuated that self-sacrifice and for whatever reason
150
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:45,000
I put, I attached that to myself worth and how much I gave of myself.
151
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:54,000
Like, I watched a lot of that in my, what felt like a sheltered early life experience
152
00:13:54,000 --> 00:14:01,000
that I watched how adults gave of themselves and how involved they were in church
153
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:11,000
and school and all of those ways. And it was this theme of like others need your time,
154
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000
your money, everything about you more than you need it yourself. That's how I
155
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,000
saw it and absorbed it.
156
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:25,000
Yeah. And in those, all of those attempts to get the reciprocal,
157
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:33,000
like I'm giving my love to you and I'm hoping or maybe even covertly expecting
158
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:38,000
that you're going to give back to me in the same way.
159
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,000
Like, I'm going to meet your needs and then someone's going to meet mine, right?
160
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:50,000
Right. And it was this almost like, am I good enough now?
161
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:57,000
Am I like, am I good enough to get into heaven? Am I giving of myself enough?
162
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,000
Am I doing it right? Am I lovable?
163
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000
Yep.
164
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:14,000
So, when that pattern keeps playing out like that and it doesn't work
165
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:21,000
because that self-worth, the gas tank of your energy and your life keeps getting
166
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,000
given away and given away and given away,
167
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:33,000
what I saw you doing and what I see a lot of people do is
168
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000
saying to themselves, again, on a subconscious level,
169
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,000
most people aren't aware that they're doing this and I'm hoping that this podcast
170
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,000
helps some people see what they're doing.
171
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,000
But what I watched you do is tell yourself,
172
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,000
this isn't working, I'm going to do more of it than maybe it'll work.
173
00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:01,000
Absolutely. That's the way the ego tries to
174
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:06,000
protect you and keep you in that perpetual pattern.
175
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:12,000
And so, continuing to,
176
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:18,000
even doubling down on giving more, giving more time, more money, more energy
177
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:26,000
and hoping that at some point it's going to start feeling good.
178
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,000
Right? So, what really,
179
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:37,000
what I remember opened my eyes to this was,
180
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,000
I don't know how many years ago now.
181
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,000
We were at a point in our lives where we got to,
182
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000
it was newer that we got to spend a lot of our days together.
183
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,000
And it felt fun, it felt amazing.
184
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,000
And I remember kind of, you know, just waking up every day
185
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,000
and it was like, "All right, sir, what are we going to do today?
186
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,000
How are we going to spend our time just waiting for you to just guide us?"
187
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000
Right? Like, I'm following you lead.
188
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,000
It felt good.
189
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,000
In my own personal development, my own journey inward,
190
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,000
I was faced with a point where all of a sudden,
191
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,000
constantly asking you to dictate how my time looked,
192
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,000
like I said before, started to feel really gross.
193
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:47,000
And I pretty quickly once identified that feeling of noticing,
194
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,000
briefly noticing something wasn't feeling good.
195
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,000
And feeling this contradiction of like,
196
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,000
"What is going on here?" Like, "I love him, I want to give my all to him.
197
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:06,000
I love giving him my time, but it's not always feeling good to me."
198
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:14,000
And what I recognized was, I simply needed some time apart from you.
199
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,000
And you seem to not need the time apart for me at that time.
200
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000
But you got it in certain ways, right?
201
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,000
And so, like, you get up in the morning before I do.
202
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,000
And so you automatically have this built-in time apart.
203
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,000
And so I recognized that.
204
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,000
And then I started to think that there was something wrong with me.
205
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000
Like, "Oh my gosh, do I not love him?
206
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,000
Like, went into all of that."
207
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,000
And I think, if I remember right, like, this came out kind of sideways.
208
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,000
One day where I kind of just like, for me back then,
209
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:54,000
it felt like losing my shit, even though that wasn't like anything.
210
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000
It was a blow-up for Don.
211
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:03,000
On Don scale, like, Don scale blow-up.
212
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:10,000
Which, especially back then, your emotional expressions were very muted.
213
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,000
And you kept them tamped down.
214
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:18,000
And so to even express frustration or overwhelm or anything,
215
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:24,000
like, what felt big to you would probably look silly to a lot of people.
216
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,000
Right.
217
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,000
Because it was so hard for you to even express it.
218
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,000
Exactly.
219
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:38,000
So, I remember bringing that to you and just feeling so lost.
220
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,000
And it was really, really hard for me to speak up for that.
221
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,000
Because I wouldn't ever say no to someone else, really.
222
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
And I felt like I was saying no to you.
223
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000
And it felt like rejecting you at the core of it,
224
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:07,000
even though I knew I wasn't, simply by speaking up for a need and asking for a little bit of time alone.
225
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:24,000
So, I believe that a lot of women who consider themselves to be submissive
226
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:30,000
are living in this people-pleasing pattern,
227
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:36,000
where they may be, as you, I believe you were, before I asked you to be my submissive,
228
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,000
that they may be very genuinely submissive.
229
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,000
They may enjoy serving.
230
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:50,000
They may get a lot of pleasure for themselves out of giving of themselves.
231
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:59,000
But in my experience of watching you and working with other people,
232
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:08,000
this people-pleasing pattern plays out with submissive women quite frequently.
233
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:15,000
And to the point that some equate their people-pleasing patterns with their submission.
234
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Like this is what it means to be submissive.
235
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:28,000
And as you've worked out of those patterns of giving of yourself in a way that is emptying,
236
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:40,000
what's it been like for you to start to learn how to give out of authentic desire instead?
237
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:49,000
Once I identified the patterns and the emotions that were still connected to them in my body
238
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:59,000
and allowed them to go of the authentic desire is just there.
239
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000
I didn't have to do anything.
240
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:14,000
And so it just started to feel really, really good.
241
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Even better.
242
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
I don't even know if you can compare it.
243
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,000
But all I'm going to say is even better than I thought giving felt like before.
244
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:36,000
And I've connected to the depth of true love and gratitude in me
245
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:42,000
that just feels like it's there and it gets to come out now
246
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,000
and there's intrude expression in so many ways.
247
00:22:46,000 --> 00:23:01,000
And then once I was able to feel that it's much easier to see any little bit of that people-pleasing that's still there in other ways.
248
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:11,000
I also had to look at this in relation to my own two daughters and parents and friends and all of that
249
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:22,000
because if it's happening at all, it's maybe happening in all relationships to some degree.
250
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:37,000
But now since I've tapped into what it can be, it's easier to see where it's not in alignment with authenticity.
251
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,000
A big part of this is really learning to own your know.
252
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Absolutely.
253
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Because if you are never willing to say no, and this isn't to say like in our relationship, we have limits.
254
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000
We know what our limits are.
255
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,000
And those things are always respected to the point that you never put in a position
256
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:15,000
where you really have to say no or use a safe word when it comes to some of the dominant submissive things.
257
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:24,000
So it wasn't a skill that really got to be practiced there where maybe in some people in their dominant submissive explorations,
258
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,000
it really is a muscle that they get to practice or that they can.
259
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:44,000
So you had to learn that in other ways that were more attached to how we relate and how you love.
260
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Right.
261
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:58,000
But learning to say no when you mean no and what you're getting at with the point you just made a moment ago was
262
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:07,000
it allowed you to feel your yes to be much stronger.
263
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Yes.
264
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,000
Absolutely.
265
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:25,000
And submission was never meant to be about giving up your boundaries and giving up your know.
266
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:43,000
And there's a lot of conversation and a lot of words that get spent talking about the importance of consent in dominant submissive relationship dynamics.
267
00:25:43,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Consent really has to start inside of yourself and really it goes beyond the bedroom and it goes beyond the ways that you explore the kink side of BDSM and into consenting to how do you,
268
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
how am I going to give of myself?
269
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,000
How does it feel good to give?
270
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,000
How does it, like, how does it not feel good and what's a no for me?
271
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,000
Right.
272
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:39,000
And the biggest piece of that journey for me was starting to connect with my body and learning for myself what the words embodiment mean and like this feminine energy thing and really tuning into what yes feels like in my body and what no feels like in my body.
273
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:46,000
And you know, at the beginning of so much of my journey was all happening at one time, right?
274
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,000
It's not nothing happens in a vacuum.
275
00:26:49,000 --> 00:27:04,000
And so one way of one important aspect of connecting with my body was being honest with myself about what I'm feeling.
276
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:15,000
And so that that sent me deeper into this connection to my body that is now possible and can truly be authentic.
277
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:29,000
And like, a lot of the ways that started to feel like resentment to me, like I also still genuinely give.
278
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Nothing that I was doing in our relationship is actually like off the table.
279
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000
Does that make sense?
280
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Like, it only was being shown to me because of this block, if you will.
281
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:55,000
But now I get to actually feel good about the giving, the saying yes.
282
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:13,000
And I'm actually able to release my own projection that someone else is giving to me out of people pleasing.
283
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Out of an obligation. That's also been a huge piece of my journey is recognizing the ways that I assumed you were just giving to me out of obligation.
284
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000
You say a little more about that?
285
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Because of the way I showed up in the world, in all of my relationships, I started to think that,
286
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,000
oh well they're just giving to me because they think I want it.
287
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Or they're just trying to make me happy.
288
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:58,000
And I got really hypersensitive to like, basically I would elaborate in a much more wordy way of like,
289
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,000
don't give to me out of people pleasing, please don't, don't, don't do that.
290
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:17,000
To the point that you would reject others wanting to give to you and push it away or, well, and push it away so that you didn't have to receive something in a way that could,
291
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,000
that you felt like could have been them abandoning themselves in doing so.
292
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Yeah. And just listening to you say that out loud?
293
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:38,000
Hmm. It's like, I just kind of lost the thread that was coming to me.
294
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:55,000
But yeah, I stayed a little too focused in that. But you know, all of these things, I've learned how the giving and the receiving, there's some of that in everything, in expression and the receiving.
295
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:08,000
And so, when I was so focused on how I've been doing it and then I had to look at the ways where I was rejecting, I had the walls built.
296
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000
That was also a big part of my journey.
297
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Getting over a people pleasing approach to life really does mean starting to look out for yourself more.
298
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:36,000
And in some people's view of submission, they want to just give, give, give, give, give, give, give.
299
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:45,000
And so, being able to set some boundaries around what feels good to give and what doesn't feel good to give,
300
00:30:45,000 --> 00:31:02,000
if you view submission in that way, is going to seem like you're being a "bad submissive" or you're not being totally submissive or, you know, whatever words someone might put to that.
301
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:21,000
But it's very important to be able to have strong boundaries because I heard someone say this and someone can leave a comment, if you know who this quote is by, I don't remember right now.
302
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:30,000
But the quote was that the most loving people have the strongest boundaries.
303
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,000
They can be the most loving because they feel so filled up.
304
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:46,000
They don't have things constantly taking down, taking them down internally because they've been willing to stand up and speak up for themselves.
305
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:52,000
And by protecting their inner space, it allows them to be more loving.
306
00:31:52,000 --> 00:32:07,000
And that really is what you have experienced in your version of this that I've watched you experience through me, of course, but also in all of those other relationships in your life,
307
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:17,000
where owning your know, setting some boundaries, protecting your own energy,
308
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:26,000
you give more of yourself now than you ever have, and that continues to grow.
309
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000
Right.
310
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:41,000
And I like the quote that you shared because, you know, going back to what I said before is what was partly underneath my people pleasing was trying to get love.
311
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:49,000
And it's because I was so disconnected from myself that I didn't even love myself.
312
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:59,000
And you know, that's an important aspect in this thing we call life is being able to feel your own love.
313
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:22,000
And that's been a, been the other, for lack of a better way to say it, aspect of this journey all this time too, because if I'm trying to get love, I actually don't know how to give love authentically.
314
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:39,000
If I don't actually love myself, like I thought I loved you, and I did to some degree, but the depths of it can be touched through authenticity.
315
00:33:39,000 --> 00:34:02,000
And this isn't evolving journey, this isn't like a, they're and done. I truly believe that the depth of what we get to experience with this word love is really can get as big as we want it to be in life.
316
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Dominance can also people please.
317
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:16,000
Yes. And I certainly had my own versions of this in our relationship.
318
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:34,000
And one of the ways that displayed up for me, I'm sure it does for other people as well, is...
319
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:59,000
I guess it's a really similar thing. It was like, as I was trying to lead this relationship forward, there were certainly times where my leadership, my dominance kind of fell into trying to figure out what you wanted in giving it to you.
320
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,000
Yeah, which was a pattern that you had gotten earlier in life.
321
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Which is at its core, at its root, it is a desire to give. It's a desire to give love, but it's also underneath that pattern in a man who is trying to step forward and take charge, underneath that pattern is trying to get something.
322
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:38,000
And it's not just what do you want, give that to you. Inside here is the covert contract.
323
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:50,000
If anyone hasn't listened to or read the book, no more Mr. Nysky by Dr. Robert Glover, pick it up and read it. That's the covert contract concept.
324
00:35:50,000 --> 00:36:08,000
And you can't hear your mind how often we do that. But a covert contract in this case is like, I'm wanting you to do something, give something back to me in exchange for me just finding out what you want to giving it to you.
325
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:31,000
And in some ways that can mask very well as leadership. It can mask even as loving dominance. But in reality, if it's attached to an unspoken desire, then it's not just leading. It's manipulative.
326
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Right. And in everything I hear you speaking there, it feels like the same thing I've already said. Like you're trying to give someone what they want in order to fill that void in you.
327
00:36:43,000 --> 00:37:03,000
And at the root of it is just this, the void that we, in my opinion, naturally have as a human in this world. And we all seek, we have a need to be loved.
328
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:28,000
And so we get to make sense and a felt sense and start to understand the depths of what is love. Because if you, if you in your mind and your body earlier on in life, you have giving equals love, then that is going to perpetuate so many different behaviors and responses in your life.
329
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:40,000
And one of the most uncomfortable things for both of us over time has really been speaking up and saying, this is how I need you to love me.
330
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,000
Mm-hmm.
331
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,000
This feels like love to me, right? And these are my needs.
332
00:37:48,000 --> 00:38:06,000
And without thinking about this too long, I'm guessing that some of those things have slightly shifted over time as we've started to understand all of these things about ourselves, all while being in relationship together.
333
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:18,000
So we were showing up differently before. Now you start personal development and then I'm starting this personal development of what I call the journey to authenticity.
334
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:45,000
And how all of like, wow, the amount of conversations and communication that we've had to really have, dropping any sort of like swords that want to come out in any sort of like fighting just and be real with real like authentic conversations and be willing to receive the other in their
335
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,000
authentic selves too.
336
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,000
And in their vulnerability.
337
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,000
Yes, that's the better word that I was going for.
338
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Because let's face it, it's a vulnerable position to put yourself in to lay yourself out there and say, I need this.
339
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:21,000
And I can't get it from you. I can't make you give this to me. And if you do it out of obligation or out of people pleasing, it's not going to feel good because it's not going to be real.
340
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:38,000
So expressing a true need without expectation of having it filled is a very vulnerable position you put yourself in.
341
00:39:38,000 --> 00:40:07,000
Right. So I'm curious how your experience of me was different when there was people pleasing and what it feels like now.
342
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:15,000
When you know something is off, but you just can't quite put your finger on it.
343
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:22,000
But it's just not right. Like, it's not like it's light in the room.
344
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,000
The lights are on.
345
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,000
But it it seems dim.
346
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:43,000
But I can't quite put my finger on why is maybe a decent metaphor for how it was before.
347
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Because you would do things for me. Like you would give to me.
348
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:56,000
And this would play out in the bedroom. It would play out in like anywhere and everywhere.
349
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:02,000
You would do things for me. You would give things to me. You would even say that you wanted to.
350
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:08,000
That you liked it. That you wanted to do more of it.
351
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,000
But it just felt off.
352
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Like I have a great example.
353
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
What's that?
354
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:29,000
What has shifted in me is the act of kneeling that happened at the beginning of our relationship daily because like you shared what this meant to you.
355
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:38,000
And you know, it was an honoring you. It was respect. It was love. It was devotion.
356
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:45,000
I don't remember exactly how you described that before. But that's what I somewhat remember.
357
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:52,000
And so I would kneel for you.
358
00:41:52,000 --> 00:42:04,000
And I feel in kneeling for you now. And many different ways is a true respect.
359
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,000
A deeper love, a deeper devotion.
360
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:15,000
And again, I wanted to give you respect. I wanted to give you admiration.
361
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:21,000
I wanted to give all those things to you before. And so I would kneel.
362
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:27,000
But I know that you feel me differently now in that.
363
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:36,000
And so I think that is one of the most profound differences for me.
364
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,000
And I just didn't know what I didn't know before.
365
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:50,000
So in retrospect, now what I can see is that before you were performing.
366
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:56,000
And I hate you in like saying that, but it was to some degree.
367
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Because I would say I want something. You would want to give it to me. And so you would do it.
368
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:09,000
But you would do it because I wanted it not because you wanted to do it.
369
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:15,000
And I wanted to please you and I wanted to show you the things you wanted to feel.
370
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,000
But you can never do that by just performing.
371
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,000
No.
372
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:29,000
Like it will, it will never feel like the way I want it to feel.
373
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Unless you are doing it because you want to.
374
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:41,000
And when I say I want to, it's like what again through connecting with my body
375
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:53,000
has opened these felt desires and felt experiences that just couldn't be experienced before.
376
00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Before using the kneeling thing as an example, you wanted to kneel for me because I wanted you to.
377
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Yes.
378
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Now you want to do it because it feels good to you to display yourself to me in that way.
379
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:19,000
And now it still feels like I can't even display it enough.
380
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:28,000
And that desire to give to give yourself that's coming out of you instead of coming out of people pleasing,
381
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,000
instead of coming out of performance is the difference in how I receive it.
382
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Because you know I'm feeling you feeling that desire to give.
383
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000
And that's back to the light analogy.
384
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,000
Like the dim light was you're doing the thing.
385
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,000
Like the action is the same.
386
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,000
It's just the energy that you feel in doing it.
387
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,000
And that's where expressing desire can be so vulnerable.
388
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Expressing a need can be so vulnerable because I can say this is really important to me.
389
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:24,000
And I can speak up for my own need. And I can tell you exactly what it is that I need.
390
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:35,000
If you take that and then just do the actions, it's not going to meet the need.
391
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:40,000
Yeah, I think that's a whole mother rabbit hole we can go down.
392
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:54,000
But one other place that that plays out in a lot of people's relationships in dumb sub dynamics is where one partner really wants this.
393
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Like let's say the submissive really wants this dumb sub dynamic.
394
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:09,000
And she goes to her vanilla partner or maybe to a new person she's dating who doesn't know much or anything about dominance and submission.
395
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,000
And says I want this kind of relationship.
396
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:19,000
This is how I want my relationship to look and I want to be submissive to my partner.
397
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:35,000
If that dominant partner wants to do that for her, maybe because he loves her or because he's really fond of her and wants to see this relationship work.
398
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:44,000
If he's doing it just because she wants him to, that's the same thing. It's just going to feel to her like he's performing.
399
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:50,000
Because what she really wants is for him to want it for himself.
400
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,000
Right.
401
00:46:51,000 --> 00:47:02,000
And so you can take that all the way down to the smallest little tasks and rules in a dominant submissive dynamic all the way up to the level of the existence of the dynamic itself.
402
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,000
Exactly.
403
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:22,000
So one thought that I want to end on here is something from Einrand's book Atlas Shrugged, is where this concept comes from.
404
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:38,000
And this thought is that someone else's need does not create an obligation on my part.
405
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:45,000
You shared that with me? I don't remember one, but wow, is that...
406
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Yes, that was eye-opening for me.
407
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:54,000
And that will strike right at the core of people pleasing.
408
00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:08,000
If anyone listening to this, ask yourself that question, where am I making someone else's need into an obligation for me?
409
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:29,000
And the reason it strikes right at the core of people pleasing is that if that dynamic is true, if the dynamic of someone else's need means that I must meet that need.
410
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:41,000
If we expand that out just a little ways and everyone is looking around looking for what does anyone else need?
411
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:49,000
How can anyone... where is their need present in my relationship, in my family?
412
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:57,000
And that might even be going far enough to completely spend a whole person's entire life.
413
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:05,000
But if you go out to the community, you start going any wider, you see how fast this evolves.
414
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Because everyone is giving away into this bottomless pit of need, because need can be expanded so easily in a way that becomes manipulative.
415
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:38,000
And this is where I believe a lot of submissive women end up in relationships with takers, because their submission gets seen as a willingness to always meet any need that gets expressed.
416
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:51,000
And so need becomes a bottomless whole, a black hole of absorbing the giving of anyone who's willing to step forward and meet that need.
417
00:49:51,000 --> 00:50:01,000
But the amount there is to give is always finite. It's limited by time, it's limited by energy.
418
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:26,000
And if someone gives themselves away to any place that they see need present, then they can only hope that what they need is going to get filled by someone else.
419
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:52,000
Which means that the only way for that person to not completely collapse in exhaustion and be out of money, out of energy, out of time, and completely used up is if somebody else sees their need and gives to them.
420
00:50:52,000 --> 00:51:08,000
And the truth is that we all are, every single person operates out of self-interest to some extent. We have to.
421
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:22,000
We absolutely must operate out of self-interest or we would never take a sip of water until we knew that every other person on the planet had some water.
422
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:30,000
Right, it's just that self-interest is pretty unconscious.
423
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:46,000
And the alternative to giving away all of yourself to any expressed need is to take some ownership of your self-interest, even as a submissive.
424
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,000
Yes.
425
00:51:48,000 --> 00:52:04,000
To take some ownership of your self-interest and recognize that if you give yourself away always all the time, you're just empty.
426
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:13,000
And that's why you may feel tired and exhausted and burned out at the end of your rope.
427
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:25,000
That was something you pointed out in our discussions before I said yes to becoming your submissive is some of the ways that you see that play out in me.
428
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:41,000
And I was like, "Whoa! Wow! There was no denying it and how I gave up myself to anyone and everything and really didn't get in return."
429
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,000
Outside of you.
430
00:52:45,000 --> 00:53:03,000
So when you take care of yourself first and you let yourself be filled up by yourself first and you allow yourself to receive from others who want to genuinely want to give to you,
431
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:18,000
then this is the analogy I use of a bathtub where if water is flowing into a bathtub and you leave the drain open, all of the water that runs in is going to run right back out.
432
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:38,000
And so anything you receive is just going to be gone because you are out there looking for anyone who needs what any energy you have and giving it away, taking care of other people, giving your time to other people, giving your money to other people, just giving, giving, giving, giving, giving.
433
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:47,000
And if you close the drain on the bathtub
434
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:57,000
and you let some water pour into you and fill yourself up, eventually you will be full.
435
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:05,000
And if that water keeps pouring into you and you continue to allow yourself to receive when you're full,
436
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:25,000
which is hard because, "Oh, now I have enough. I feel really good. Like, I'm full. I am complete. I'm whole. I've taken care of myself by closing that drain, stopping for a little while, slowing down and letting myself be filled up. I've become abundant.
437
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:34,000
And some people get very uncomfortable with being abundant when they're used to being in lack in the giving away of themselves.
438
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:52,000
But if you close that drain and fill yourself up and you allow yourself to continue to receive when you are in that state of brimming with abundance and love and resources and energy, guess what?
439
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,000
The water is going to overflow on the floor.
440
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:10,000
It's going to make a complete mess. It's going to go everywhere because you're going to have so much in you that you can give of yourself from a place of fullness instead of a place of emptiness.
441
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:22,000
And the overflowing becomes beautiful and feels different and good. And for me, it feels like being alive.
442
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,000
You are alive because now you're full of energy instead of empty of energy.
443
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,000
Exactly.
444
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:37,000
And you can still give the same amount.
445
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,000
So, people pleasing is not submission.
446
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,000
No.
447
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,000
And people pleasing is not dominance.
448
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,000
No.
449
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:54,000
It's also not healthy relating for any person in or out of a dumb sub-dynamic.
450
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,000
Right.
451
00:55:55,000 --> 00:56:03,000
It is okay to be a little bit selfish and put yourself first and to take care of you.
452
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:11,000
And it's necessary so that you can be in authentic giving of yourself.
453
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:17,000
This was, you know, throughout this process, was where you told me like, "I want you to be selfish."
454
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,000
And I had to sit with like, "Why does that word feel so ill to me?"
455
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,000
And it's just the connotation that I had with it.
456
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,000
When I grew up hearing, "Don't be selfish."
457
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,000
And you're telling me like, "Be selfish." I'm like, "What is that?"
458
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:40,000
But when you think about it in the terms of the bathtub analogy and actually like giving to yourself first,
459
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:50,000
it makes sense because you truly can't give of yourself if you don't have a self to give.
460
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,000
So, this is a really great conversation.
461
00:56:52,000 --> 00:57:00,000
I appreciate all of your insight and your growth in this and how much it's given back to our relationship
462
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:07,000
and allowed me to experience a totally new version of you.
463
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:13,000
It feels good. Thank you. Thank you for leading me through it.
464
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,000
I'm very glad that you're mine.
465
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,000
Me too, sir.
466
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:27,000
[Music]